Ya Halla question

topic posted Sun, April 20, 2008 - 1:17 PM by  January
I haven't done Ya Halla in a couple of years.. am I crazy : my understanding is you can't seperate classes within a day? For example: If I want to take from Rachel Brice, I also have to take from Fahteim? If I want to take from Aziza, I have to also go to Angelika Nemeth?

I am not knocking these performers- but I really don't get this. I know that everyone will tell me how great they are and I don't doubt it- it's just that my pocketbook can't afford all this. I could understand if you had to payfor the whole day with the same instructor, but I don't understand the whole day with two totally different people. Especially Rachel Brice and Fahteim. How does that go together?

Am I crazy? Or is this the case?

***I am not saying anyone is bad- I just don't get this***
posted by:
January
Texas
  • Re: Ya Halla question

    Sun, April 20, 2008 - 1:38 PM
    No January, you aren't crazy. If you sign up for one bean, you sign up for the whole burrito!!!

    I have not really done ya halla because I do find it's always paired with someone who I'm not wild about taking from. LIke you said, not knocking but sometimes it's someone who just doesn't suit my style.
    • Re: Ya Halla question

      Sun, April 20, 2008 - 2:23 PM
      I don't KNOW why it is set up like that. However, as one who has been involved in arranging multi-faceted seminars, it is much easier to handle high volume attendance of mutiple offerings using day to day packages. A 3 day Symposium is a tremendous amount of work.

      Can I have a side of pico with that burrito, please :~} Te He
  • Re: Ya Halla question

    Sun, April 20, 2008 - 4:01 PM
    It's a marketing/business strategy to try to get in larger numbers...hitting both cab and tribal, anticipating them to stay all day to "get their money's worth." I dance both styles, but I haven't done all of Ya Halla Y'all in years because I don't always want both instructors....plus, I'll be honest, I bought a whole package and I was so tired by the end of day three that I sat on the sides lines almost angry I was so spent. It's actually a great weekend, always has been.

    But, I can see this strategy being a risk - you end up turning some people off as much as you bring them in.

    Largely, this is also a huge focus for Isis' students, and it is a great way to get her students as many fabulous instructors in one spot at one time and cover all styles and interests.
    • Re: Ya Halla question

      Sun, April 20, 2008 - 4:51 PM
      I would offer up that with the economy in its current condition it would be hard to know what the best stategy would be for setting up such a large event. Everyone is rethinking their business plan.
      • Re: Ya Halla question

        Mon, April 21, 2008 - 8:08 AM
        Last year, they let the drummers just take one class in one day. I'm glad because last year I couldn't afford two classes, and probably wasn't good enough for more than beginner, anyway.

        I don't know how that works for drummers, this year. Susu or Tobias, I want them both! Guess I'll have to rob Peter to Pay Pal this year (hahaha, sorry for the pun).
  • Re: Ya Halla question

    Sun, April 20, 2008 - 6:17 PM
    January,
    I totally agree and hence the reason why I have never been to one. The planets have not been in line for me to justify paying for a whole day yet. Most of the time I really love someone but are paired with someone I have no interest in taking with.
    Eh well! There are tons of others going on that will occupy my time! ;-)
    xoxo,
    -NJ
    • Re: Ya Halla question

      Mon, April 21, 2008 - 9:37 AM
      As someone who has been to YHY, I know the feeling you get on day three-you feel like you've been beat with a stick, but you don't want to miss any class you've paid for (even if paid by default).

      One of the things I really like about the Austin Belly Dance Convention (full disclosure: I produce this event) is you can pay for classes a la carte (which means you only pay for the classes you want, including the drum classes) OR, with the Red HOT deal, you can get all the classes (Sadie, Sohail Kaspar, Bahaia, Outi of Cairo & others) & shows you can handle for only one low price. We also have a Drummer's Deal that includes all drum classes with Sohail Kaspar & shows for those of you who don't shake it. For info, contact me or check out Events at Bahaia.com.

      Now on to my tex-mex daydream...mmmmm....burritos.
      • Re: Ya Halla question

        Mon, April 21, 2008 - 8:37 PM
        Yup! Love it- used to go when it was called Hot. Love the a la carte.

        I'm torn b/c I can't afford, money OR time wise, to be there for three solid days, but there's at least one person on Saturday and Sunday I'd like to take from. Instead, I have to choose between those two and by default take from someone I am not necessarily wanting to.

        hmmmm...
  • Re: Ya Halla question

    Sun, April 27, 2008 - 2:32 PM
    This is a big reason, like the others who posted, why I haven't been to Yahalla Ya'll for a few years. I go to the big Saturday show but don't want to spend the money for one whole day when I only want to take one class. I have small kids at home, too, and that's a long time to be away. This issue was raised in NTMEDA's Papyrus (in the form of a Letter to the Editor) about 2 years ago when I was the editor ,and it pissed a few Isis people off that some dancers in the community complained. The bottom line is that she is the producer of the event and can organize it in any way she wants, but we are the customers with money and we can decide if we want to buy her product or not. Little Egypt offers a weekend package deal for their event or you can pay a la carte for individual classes and shows. This worked great for me last year since I was 6 1/2 months pregnant and couldn't take multiple classes in one day. But unfortunately for our Tribal and Fusion dancers this event is focused on Eygptian style raks sharki.
    • Re: Ya Halla question

      Sun, April 27, 2008 - 4:17 PM
      I wonder if you can sell a half day to a friend... like have them meet you there and you give them your ticket or whatever...

      hmmmm... I will investigate. If so, I would like to sell my ticket to Angelika Nemeth and Fahteim's workshops. But I will call the Isis headquarters and find out first.

      If we can't do that, I can only buy a ticket to Rachel and Fahtiem and I will have to forgo Aziza, or vice versa. I can't do both. This kinda sucks.

      I love that Isis brings such a big thing to our community and I don't want to seem ungrateful, but I just don't understand why she does it this way. It seems like she'd get MORE customers; not less. Oh well. Like you said she can do what she wants.
      • Re: Ya Halla question

        Sun, April 27, 2008 - 9:53 PM
        As an event producer, you're right, I have the power to arrange the event schedule and pricing any way I want. But I would think any event producer would want to be responsive to suggestions from their clients. This is not a one-size-fits all world anymore......
        • Re: Ya Halla question

          Mon, April 28, 2008 - 10:26 PM
          As I said before, the complexities of arranging a symposium of this magnitude, coordinating the schedules of 7 top dance instructors ( 2 of which travel with the BDSS) and 2 drum instructors is a gargantuan undertaking. Whatever combination gives the broadest offerings and meets the star's availabilty is what you have to go with. If a star says, I can only do this day or that...you have to go with it. Tracking passes/tickets for individual classes and making sure attendees are where they are supposed to be can really strain a mostly volunteer staff.

          I have served on several statewide, weekend symposium committees encompasing multiple practice areas. If it were not for vendor support, we would have been in the red. These events rarely 'make money' of any significant amount. You just hope to stay out of a deficit. BTW, conference fees for something like that run anywhere from $200-250 WITH vendors sponsoring a speaker(s). 'Without vendors, the price would be almost double. Paying for the instructor, their hotel and travel and the conference center takes most of the revenue. The goal is to serve the learning needs of your members/peers/students, not a big deposit in the bank ;~}

          It is my nature to always give the benefit of the doubt. It is not fair to imply a negative motive based on personal perception.
          • Re: Ya Halla question

            Tue, April 29, 2008 - 4:56 PM
            I am sorry- I did not mean to imply a negative motive. I am grateful that these classes are available at all. I did not mean to open a can of worms, y'all. Sorry. I am sure that it is a lot of work. I do not doubt that it's thankless. I am just wondering if there's a way that I can get the most bang for my buck. I guess I am spoiled because every other BD seminar I have gone to has had a la carte classes unless it was the same instructor all day.

            By the way, I emailed to the address on the website and asked about what I said earlier- haven't heard back yet but I will let y'all know if I do find out anything.

            Again- sorry if I at all had a tone of unapreciativeness (is that a word?)
          • Re: Ya Halla question

            Tue, April 29, 2008 - 6:20 PM
            Ya, Deede. ISIS is the only one in DFW that brings drummers from out of town that I know of.

            I'm not complaining at all. I'm just glad she does and I have the chance to take from some of the best, without having to fly from here to NYC or SF or Phoenix.
            • Re: Ya Halla question

              Tue, April 29, 2008 - 8:36 PM
              I wish there was more description to what a drum teacher will teach instead of "beginner" and "advanced". What is advanced for some isnt for others. I'd drop some change for a 30 min private critique.
              • Re: Ya Halla question

                Tue, April 29, 2008 - 9:41 PM
                That is a great suggestion! Creating timeslots for a couple of for 1:1 mini-sessions might be feasible depending on the instructor 's availablity/willingness.

                As far as a teaching plan, the instructor has to be able to quickly evaluate at what level the majority of participants function and go from there. When you have such a wide range of skill levels attending both classes, it is a disservice to both extremes. It is hard to restrict a less advanced student from attending an advanced class. They can still learn something and enjoy the class.

                Jamal delved into odd-metered rhythms and working with mutiple instruments after learning the previous year's instructor had focused on technique, precision/timing and developing a drum solo. Perhaps better communication of participant learning needs prior to the event is in order.
                • Re: Ya Halla question

                  Wed, April 30, 2008 - 3:25 AM
                  None of the latest teachers do what Ibraheim Turmen did. He would have each person play a couple of minutes so he could see what he was dealing with. Not sure how Susu or anyone else can evaluate a room full of 40 people going full bore on their drums.
            • Re: Ya Halla question

              Tue, April 29, 2008 - 9:47 PM
              Well, you know me...heart on sleeve...jumping to the defense of those not present to state their case. Sorry to have misunderstood.
              • Re: Ya Halla question

                Tue, April 29, 2008 - 10:00 PM
                Last year, I took only 1 dance class so that I could dance with my troupe. Other than that, I jumped into drum classes and was a happy camper! I may do the same this year. I am getting a huge kick out of drumming, even though I can't sit still for long - you know me well, Deede!!!! I can't sit at Linda's parties.

                I would like Ya Halla better if there were more of a choice in how I spend my money/time. Bigger venues have sessions a la carte. It can be done if that is the producers choice. But, I make the best of as a consumer and make it work for me. We are in a workshop-abundant area.
                • Re: Ya Halla question

                  Tue, April 29, 2008 - 10:29 PM
                  We ARE lucky to have so many choices. It is great to have such a large dance community .

                  Yes, Yes, Yes...come drum with us! Susu is such an inspiration and so fun. I am looking forward to Tobias also. I plan to take the drum/zill class on Sunday,
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Ya Halla question

                    Wed, April 30, 2008 - 9:56 AM
                    Poor January! Don't feel badly girl, you just opened up a discussion that has been happening behind the scenes pretty much since I got here but the miracle of the internet has just allowed it to be brought to the forefront.

                    I would look at this situation as this if I were Isis. And provided I don't know what the negative impact would be. However, it is fairly apparent that there are ALOT of dancers in this area alone that would take the workshops if they were split up. We don't want to pay $155 (I'm pulling numbers from the sky here) for a workshop where we would take from only one person.

                    however, we would pay $55 to take from that one person we like. We may pay $55 one day, and then $55 the next day to take ONE workshop. But instead, we turn away and take our money elsewhere. Thereby Isis (or any promoter for that matter) would see zero of our dollars.

                    Would it not make more sense to a la carte the classes and at least obtain SOME of our dollars as opposed to what she has seen from me and many others throughout the years? I would tell you now that she would've seen me in at least ONE class every year since I have been in Texas, which is like 8 years now. I know this stands true for others as well.

                    I guess my point is, wouldn't it be more profitable to accomodate and get some money out of people as opposed to absoultey none. And of course I'm not counting the people who do, in fact, pay for the whoel day even though they don't care to take from the other instructor. I sometimes feel that they are set up in such a fashion as someone who is not as a big draw is on the same day as someone who is.
                    • Re: Ya Halla question

                      Wed, April 30, 2008 - 12:21 PM
                      I think if it "ain't broke, don't fix it." The reality is Yaa Hall Y'all has over 100+ people in most classes over three days. By their estimation, they are only losing a few by not doing a la carte, but saving in their administrative costs and staffing costs for this events (yes, I talked to them about this when this thread came up last year, or possibly even the year before, on tribe.) The reality is it takes double the staff to have a la carte or die-hard staff that will sit in one spot for hours on end to "man the doors." You would be surprised how many participants come late and come and go at an event. Someone has to be there to check admittance via armband or ticket system each time they enter again. Also, all the added paper, website work and probably many other hidden costs and occurrences I am not considering right now don't make it cost effective for a system that isn't broke to change. If they made it a la carte and raised the rates to offset the added costs possible as many people (or more) as are currently not attending because of no a la carte, would not be able to attend due to the price change and the sense of losing the value from the package deal. You just can't please everyone. If there numbers suddenly dropped and they could not attribute it to other factors, I think they would definitely consider changing the policy if it were at all cost possible.

                      On the positive side, can't we all find benefit from taking from many instructors? I think trying an instructor even more than once is in order if they are teaching general skills formats. You can't ever work on technique and basics too much and I too often see people glossing over this much needed re grounding to take from the latest "it" instructor and will only study with them once cause they are so on to the next big thing. I like the "it" instructors/dancers too, but I have my tried and true instructors that I take from every chance I get and they are often not at the top of the current "heap". We always learn something in any situation, even if it is simply what we don't like or don't want to be. Myself personally, I always walk away with more than I ever expected to "get" from an instructor's class that I thought I wouldn't like. Besides, if I make it through the class I wanted and take some of the class that just came along with the package I feel totally justified in leaving early or going shopping ;) if I got what I wanted from the day.

                      Okay, now let's talk dollars and cents ;) I went to the website so we could talk specific, accurate YHY figures. $255 - 3 days of workshops/6 hours a day, plus two nights of show tickets. Broken down into an hourly rate, less a show ticket of $12 and $20 taken out, is a total teaching cost of $232. This further breaks out into an average hourly teaching rate of $12.39/hr. The national average is somewhere between $15 - $25 right now.

                      For comparison sake, let's look at the most recent Fifi/Dr. Mo workshop hosted by Little Egypt. I also went to their website for the prices. $354 - 2 days of workshop/6 hours a day, plus 2 nights of show tickets. Broken down into an hourly rate, less a show ticket of $15 and $85 (dinner included) taken out, is a total teaching cost of $21.17/hr. I don't know how accurate this breakdown is because I do not know the cost breakdown of show versus dinner costs. But this is just for comparison anyway ;)

                      I brought all of this up to show that costs have to be higher for a la carte in most cases. (disclaimer: there could certainly be more reasons for costs differences, i.e. where stars travel from, how many instructors, etc). On the LE a la carte you can take the headliner for $100 for 3 hours. On the YHY ticket, you can take the headliner's day for $115. So for $15 would anyone really pass up studying with a master instructor? Well, me thinks that might be because of principal or because you don't like that style or whatever, but is it really because of the $15? Maybe for a few it really is and that is a shame, but the workshop costs was probably better spent on necessities then anyway right?

                      I am sure I have over simplified. I like both these sponsors and ALL of their events. I support, attend, participate and perform in ALL of them. These are simply my opinions and observations as a long time participant and event sponsor myself. <steps into asbestos undies, prepares for flamage ;) >
                      • Re: Ya Halla question

                        Wed, April 30, 2008 - 2:04 PM
                        Kudos to the participants! Keeping it cool! I'm learning a bunch here, especially. I understand why some want a la carte, and Brandy gets down to the dollars and cents side of it. KEWEL!

                        Oh, and Deede? You know I'd pay $55 for two hours of drum and zills from YOU! You've cashed my checks. *smiles* And I'm tickled pink to be able to take from Tobias and Susu. That should tell you something. :-)

                        Sean's got some good points. Susu last year did let everyone in the beginners' class play 20 seconds or so to see what they had.

                        Lastly, I learn something every time I pick up a drum, the zills, or a percussion toy, and that includes doing so with rank beginners. Bad pun intended. :-)
                      • Re: Ya Halla question

                        Wed, April 30, 2008 - 5:45 PM
                        Wow- this is why I need you "numbers people" in my life. I wasn't looking at it that way at all. I was looking at it in the sense that the two people I wanted to take from were on two different days so I'd have to go all day both days to get both of them.

                        But you just presented it in a way that makes it kind of seem OK. Although I don't think I've ever paid $100 for a 3 hour class (I think the most has been around $70-ish), you're right about the fact that it's not double the cost to take the whole day; it's just a little bit more than what a person would pay for a three hour a la carte class.

                        And you're right about it never hurting to take more classes. The good thing is, it's still kind of far away and I can budget for it.

                        Actually, this is kind of the whole reason I asked about it- I figured there were things I wasn't considering since I don't run these things and I have no idea what goes into it.

                        That said- I am thinking about just sucking it and doing the whole she-bang!

                        Yay! Thanks for helping me 'get it'. :-)

                        AND you are right about them not hurting for the customers. I guess if I were in her shoes, I wouldn't change it either!
                        • Re: Ya Halla question

                          Sat, May 10, 2008 - 11:38 AM
                          Hi Everyone!
                          I found out that Rachel Brice is teaching CABARET on Saturday, not Tribal!
                          So since everyone thought it was weird that Tribal and Fahteim were paired up, it's going to be all cabaret!
                          The official Tribal day is Thursday.
                          • Re: Ya Halla question

                            Sun, May 11, 2008 - 10:26 AM
                            Rachel doing cabaret? That should be interesting.
                            • Re: Ya Halla question

                              Mon, May 12, 2008 - 2:50 PM
                              I know Im getting into this post late, and my two cents are pretty dinky......I've been to YHY for two years now, and I keep going back. The classes are always amazing, even from teachers I initially wasen't into. I admit last year's gypsy fusion class with Mesmera was not a draw for me......I know her, and know her style, but gypsy fusion has zero attraction for me. However, I stuck around and holy crap! I learned some really great stuff! The zill routine alone was worth taking the class......I was sooooo glad I stayed!

                              I know that some people want their cake and to eat it, too......but honestly, Im totally satisfied with what Isis has cooking. I love the classes, I love the shows, I love how easy it is to just walk from the hotel to the event and back whenever I want, and I love that the teachers and vendors are all very easily accessible......last year I had questions about the choreography Meera taught, and there she was, right there, and together we worked out my question.

                              I know that these days, costs matter, and the weekend is expensive, it's true. However, the way I look at it is.....would I pay $50 or so to take a class from Rachel Brice, or Fahtiem, or Aziza? You bet I would! So, if my three days costs me $255.....that's about $85 for two classes and a show! When all is said and done, that's a deal.....and you dont even have to use a coupon!

                              Just my thoughts,

                              ~Su

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